My son refused to go back to school today because he says he no longer trusts the school. Why would he say that? Because we convinced him that everything would be okay if he returned yesterday after the nightmare that occurred Friday. It wasn’t completely okay, he arrived to band to discover they were having a study hall. They are transitioning from the fall band (during marching band season) and the bands that exist the rest of the year. I am supposed to be notified of changes. Yes I realize he needs to learn to deal with some changes and I think he probably would have tolerated this on a different day. But not yesterday.
You may be thinking “what does this have to do with empathy?” I will tell you that it has everything to do with empathy and just reinforces my views that the scientists are the ones who lack empathy. For simplicity in this post I say scientist to mean any doctor of any kind studying Autism. Autistic is used to refer to anyone on the spectrum, including Asperger’s. I can not speak for autistics, I am only speaking from my perspective as a parent.
There are a couple fabulous sites that discuss empathy and the science behind the studies done on this topic. I could not do nearly a good job so I will just direct you there. Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg writes amazing posts, on her blog Journeys With Autism and she also edits and publishes the site Autism and Empathy. Autism and Empathy is a collection of posts from parents and autistics about the topic of Empathy and Autism. I highly recommend these sites.
I do need to give some background information to explain my thoughts. If you want further information please go read the posts I reference. Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg discusses the work of Simon Baron-Cohen in many previous posts. He then replied to her critques. Simon Baron-Cohen explains how mostly disagrees with her previous posts but he does agree that Autistics are able to express empathy.
Simon Baron Cohen explains that there is Cognitive empathy and Affective empathy. He explains that Cognitive empathy is the ability to identify the other person’s state of mind by non verbal methods and affective empathy is the drive to respond appropriately. He further explains that Autistics lack the ability to recognize the other person’s state of mind without the feeling being explained to them. He goes on to explain that he agrees that once they are told the other person is sad, they do care (affective empathy).
In Rachel’s post here she critiques the reply of Simon Baron-Cohen and his work further. Rachel additionally has valid critiques of the actual Empathy test. She went on further to describe how Simon Baron-Cohen did not make the distinction in his book that Autistics care and compares them to psycopaths. This causes Rachel to be very concerned especially since he is now saying that isn’t. She correctly points out his book will probably be read more than the blog post.
If I haven’t already said this, go read these posts, they are full of information and are very interesting! Although I find it interesting, I also find it aggravating.
These scientists are going around saying autistics lack empathy because they do not recognize non verbal cues. They give examples about how the control group of children were able to identify the emotion in the same situation. Well put an autistic in a room and ask neurotypicals what emotion they are expressing and they won’t be able to tell you either. No wonder why autistics are so outraged. The scientists are all focused on how autistics lack empathy and need to learn the non-verbal cues. What about the neurotypicals learning some of the autistic’s non-verbal cues?
I recently attended a seminar for nurses where one of the subjects covered was Autism. I should have known better than to attend. I thought I would learn something and I suppose I did. I had many issues with the way some information was conveyed and was less than quiet about it. One of the big issues was when the lecturer mentioned that Autistics lacked empathy. I of course argued with him that my son absolutely has empathy.
The lecturer explained to me that it is possible for some autistics to learn empathy. He explained that yes autistics can learn the non-verbal cues for emotions. He explained that neurotypicals (not sure he used that word but anyways) can put themselves in the place of the other person. He explained that is truly what empathy means. He went on to say that an autistic could not truly put themself in the place of another person. Well isn’t that exactly what the scientists are unable to do? Their point of reference is “neurotypical”. The scientists are unable to put themself in the place of an autistic. I however think an autistic can put themself in the place of another autistic.
Now let’s circle back to yesterday at band. The teacher probably thought she was giving the kids a break by giving them a study hall. She may have even let them talk or play games during that period because hey, why not?, isn’t that what all kids want to do. They probably became loud but she probably thought who cares. Apparently my son did not have an outburst so no one realized it bothered him. I haven’t heard from the band teacher so let’s assume he did something like put his head down or chew on his shirt.
Either of those items would probably be ignored in this situation if the teacher doesn’t understand his non-verbal communication. (Even though I provided this information to the school before the school year started) It is not intuitive to her that this is what he is communicating, she doesn’t have empathy for him. So he needs to learn to express verbally his feelings because that is what is expected of him. But from speaking to her she only lacks cognitive empathy. She has affective empathy. In fact she has communicated she will do anything to help make band successful for him. If she had known it bothered him she would have probably handled it right away. But she didn’t have cognitive empathy so she didn’t know.
If someone can put themselves in his place they would realize that chaos or change causes stress. Last Friday at school it was absolutely chaotic, with kids “throwing toilet paper everywhere” This is what he reported in complete disgust and I am proud of him. It sounds to me like he is more civilized than the other kids at school!
When I posted the events of Friday on my blog I received some response from parents and autistics. Specifically on twitter @Celebr8nGenr8n tweeted that she read it to her also aspie husband. “DAMN. We feel awful for him, would not have handled it so well. Kudos to him!” In another tweet she said “Hubby was picturing rocking before I got there!” Sounds like her husband was able to put himself in my son’s place. I think that is called empathy.
The school has expressed that what occurred on Friday was not okay and kids got in trouble. They also expressed that my son does not need to participate in anything that makes him uncomfortable. I appreciate that but I have asked them to help him avoid the chaos and noise. I have also repeatedly asked them to notify me of change. Really what they need to do is try to see the world as he does.
I am always told that he needs to work on communicating when he is uncomfortable. We are working on this but I don’t think it is fair that the main focus is always on him learning the meaning of non verbal communication from neurotypicals and how to communicate “appropriately”. What about the neurotypicals learning a bit about his non-verbal communications and his way of communicating? I personally think that it is the neurotypicals need to work on their empathy for Autistics. I pledge to work on this every day, how about you?
Hi. I liked your post, which I learned about on Rachael’s FB page. I like your son’s attitude about this. One of the best things my daughter was (eventually) allowed to do by (most of) her middle school teachers was to leave the room whenever she needed. This was at a private school – our public schools are horrible- however. It really gave her the sense of control she so much needed. This continued in high school and, of course, now in college. When you look at it from the kid’s point of view, which I’m sure you do, school is someplace between normal life and jail in so many ways. Raise your hand to go to the bathroom! I had to do that once when I worked for the post office during college and found it astoundingly humiliating. I think a lot of the “normal” indignities of school life are very hard for kids on the spectrum. What does it teach that when you don’t like the amount of noise in the room, you *can’t* walk out. I think it teaches passivity and learned helplessness. That’s why I like your son’s attitude. He seems to get (at least this time) that it’s not his fault. My daughter got that and it has done her well. Best wishes.
Thank you for stopping by! I agree school is like jail! I say all the time if I get annoyed with a co-worker I go in my office & close my door 🙂 We keep re-enforcing that he can leave but sometimes he thinks he can handle it and then later he gets upset. We continue to work on it since it is newer that he is allowed to do this. For us it was the opposite, the private school wouldn’t let him walk out of the room. Thanks again for sharing, glad your daughter is in college & doing well.
I was just saying today, having Aspergers is like living in a foreign country where every one speaks another language. Not only does everyone there expect you to know the language, but to speak it fluently. It’s so much work for them. No wonder they are exhausted at the end of the day.
Karen- thanks for stopping by. It is like a foreign language or I have described it to my son as missing the decoder ring 🙂
“I am always told that he needs to work on communicating when he is uncomfortable.” Whenever I see or hear that statement I think “It IS a 2 way street. It shouldn’t be so much up to one person (especially when communication is a known difficulty) to adapt to the other.” I don’t know why these people don’t seem to understand that they should also be educating themselves to more effectively interpret body language etc. of autistic people so they will recognize when they are uncomfortable, in addition to learning about what situations cause them anxiety. It’s not just with children either. Adult aspies are often misunderstood and misinterpreted in a negative way (by people who know they have aspergers) with no consideration for how THEY experience life.
It’s my opinion ,the lecturer was wrong. Most people (whether NT or aspie) can put themselves in the place of another IF they have something in common with that person…. similar life experience or relationship (like motherhood) or have educated themselves to understand people who are different from themselves.
Exactly- I can only understand what it is like for someone else if I have a shared experience. There are certain things that I cannot completely understand or empathize with because I have not had a similar experience. Thanks again for stopping by.
I think it is still possible to attempt empathy even without common experience or understanding. I like the distinction you make between the kind of caring empathy and the kind of understanding empathy.
I am thinking specifically of the work of Michael Rosenberg with NVC and the use it has been put to in peace situations where there seems no common experience or connection. Yet, compassionate observance and a willingness to learn go a long way.
I find it commendable that you are able to see all the sides of this situation with your own empathy and work as a bridge for the benefit of your son, your family, and all of the other people who can grow their own empathy skills just by being around you and him.
I agree that the scientists seem blind to notice that they can edge away from the humanity in the person in front of them. I believe all are capable of empathy, but whether someone agrees with this opinion or not, I believe everyone, *without exception* is deserving of empathy.
Your son sounds like a wonderful boy as does his mother.
Namaste to you both.
Zoie, Thank you so much for stopping by and for your kind words. I love your reference to the work of Michael Rosenberg- that makes complete sense- compassionate observance and willingness to learn go a long way. Thank you again for stopping by 🙂
A very thoughtful post; I will definitely look up the articles you refer to. Empathy is definitely something I have been thinking about in our family too. It is obvious to me that my children have cognitive empathy to such a degree that it overwhelms them. This becomes obvious when my son picks up on any low moods of mine. He often asks me if I’m sad and becomes quite tearful and stressed. It is clear that he is reading me through non-verbal means though his responses are not always appropriate (I guess this is the affective empathy). Like you, I also feel the neurotypicals need to develop their empathy towards autistic people. I meet many professionals who show little cognitive empathy and expect my children to learn the neurotypical way. Its ironic really that they try and make lack of empathy a feature of the autism spectrum when there are plenty of neurotypicals who exhibit lack of empathy.
Thank you Deb! I have definitely seen my son pick up on my moods. I have to be calm to keep him calm! Thanks for saying you agree that neurotypicals need to work on empathy. I am trying very hard to understand him and I just others to do the same. Thanks for stopping by.
Excellent post
On a positive note at least the band teacher listened to you. I just get told I fuss too much when I express my concerns. He’s not violent (anymore) and no one is violent to him so they don’t care.
Pinkoddy- thanks for stopping by! My son used to get violent and I am always concerned he could again. At the high school they seem to be more proactive which is wonderful!! You keep fussing- that is what you need to do for your kid!
Great post! My husband can definitely be empathetic. It’s not quite the same as some of the NTs I know, but it’s empathy (or sympathy, depending on the situation). You made the point about people with autism being empathetic to others on the spectrum and that is definitely true! My husband is able to put himself in our son’s head much better than I can! We’ve also taught our son (who is almost 3) to offer a hug and a kiss when someone tells him that they are sad. It’s adorable. 🙂 Beyond that, I think you’re also on target with expecting the changes to be a 2-way street. The teachers and administrators need to meet your son halfway and learn his language; he can’t be made to make all the accommodations.
Yes you are absolutely right. Neurotypicals nee to work on
awareness, understanding and empathy. This lack of empathy
stereotype has been bothering me for a while so thanks for
research. In my experience my Aspie child has so much empathy
that he feels totally overwhelmed.
I have Asperger’s and we don’t lack empathy. We APPEAR to lack empathy to others.
It is my personal experience as an autist (AS/NLD) that what happens more often than not is that people tend to be confusing empathy for SYMpathy: I can (and have, by and large) learned some of the cues that tell me when somebody is sad or happy or frustrated and I know what being sad or happy or frustrated feels like, so I can empathize with them; this is something I feel everybody does although with different levels of success (and I have known many NTs who weren’t all that good at it).
What I CANNOT do (at least not very well) is identify with somebody else’s emotional state well enough to be able to share what they are feeling when they are feeling it…my brain isn’t wired for sympathy: if you are crying, I know that you are most likely sad and I can EMPATHIZE with you (because I also know sadness), but I likely will be unable to identify with WHY you are sad, or what it was about what happened to you that MADE you sad…at least not until you explain it to me.
There is a world of difference between empathy and sympathy.
I realize that I am late to the party so please excuse my tardiness. =)
As the mother of an Aspie, and also as an individual who is on the spectrum, I am truly offended by the “findings” of certain scientists. When you write a book, a best-seller, and equate people with autistic spectrum disorders with psychopaths, knowing full-well that your so-called expertise in the field will be interpreted as 100% factual by most readers, it is libelous.
I have much more to say about empathy but I’ve become too overcome with emotion at this time. I will say that this topic has given my family a great deal to talk about in recent months.
Reblogged this on Appalachian aspie..
I definitely truly struggle to fully understand how another NT feels until I’ve walked in their shoes. They can tell me all they want but it seems that until I have experienced it myself, I may understand the words they’ve said but until I’ve felt it myself, I keep making the same mistakes. However, if an NT tells me how they feel VERY clearly and no abstractness – I will understand and I always reach out to help. The issue remains that I tend to offer the response that I think I would have wanted and not what they actually are looking for because I generally have no idea what they would want. *sighs* I just wrote about this
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